Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

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Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby rditto48801 » 21 Jan 2010, 01:50

Well, I am back asking for opinions on new video cards.
Mainly because my friend's not so great GeForce 9400 video card has died (cooling fan apparently died), and he is stuck with an even older 7300.

Can you recommend a good video card that is well suited for gaming?

I wish to talk him out of getting a 9500GT, since I recall something about them not being that good.
He has a 480w PSU
His MB has PCI-E (v1.0)
There is an open slot in the case next to it, so he could handle one of those double wide cards with the nice sized cooling fans.

The most graphic intensive game he says he has is Star Wars the Force Unleashed, GTA 4 and Batman Arkham Asylum.

His budget tops out at $130-140

Edit:
Here is one he is looking at after I told him not to get the 9500GT

EVGA GeForce 9800 GT Video Card - 1024MB DDR3, PCI Express 2.0, (2) Dual Link DVI, HDTV, VGA Support
Is that a good type of video card for his present needs?
End edit:


Heck, while I am asking, I might as well ask for myself, as I am thinking of trading up from my HIS HD 4670 IceQ w/ 512 GDDR3.
I got a 600watt PSU iirc.
Most graphical games that come to mind are Supreme Commander, The Sims 3... maybe The Orange Box.
My present card works well, but there is some lag on Sims 3 (and lots of 'blank white textures' for a split second when switching lots) and Supreme Commander when lots of units are on screen. I have yet to install The Orange Box, friend found one for me new, still wrapped with the mocking EA seal on the bottom, so I don't know what would be needed to run that at or near max settings.
Games I might get in the future include the next Command and Conquer, Supreme Commander 2, and Silent Hunter 5 (if they don't screw it up like they did with Silent Hunter 4)

I probably don't need to upgrade just yet, but I rather plan ahead to be on the safe side, as springtime in a few months means no more huge heating bill and spare money to save up for upgrades.
My budget will probably top out at $200, maybe more, depending on how much I can get saved up in a few months.
Boldly going forward, 'cause I can't find reverse.

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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby Blín D'ñero » 21 Jan 2010, 12:49

Hi Rditto. :)
Is the cause of dying of the card known? If it was the motherboard / Psu, any new card would soon die too.
About cards i agree with you to completely disregard 9500GT.
The 9800 GT in your link is overpriced, it's not worth that. A 9800GTX+ would be that price, and it's about the performance level as HD4870. On these extensive test pages you can see it's constantly between 4850 and 4870. But his PSU isn't powerful enough for it.
With his PSU I'd say he should look for a card that has the least power-consumption. Like the HD4850 $129.99
If he insists on nVidia, and was prepared to accept the sad low performance of a 9500GT, he will be happy with this BFG GeForce 9800 GT Low Power Video Card - 1024MB GDDR3, PCI Express 2.0, (2) Dual Link DVI, HDTV, VGA Support $139.99 Less $10.00 Rebate = $129.99
But the best option, because considerably lower powerconsumption, (AND DX11, but that only works with Vista and Windows 7 though) today the HD 5xxx cards have the best price/performance ratio: Sapphire Radeon HD 5670 Video Card - 1024MB DDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, CrossFireX, DVI, Dipslay Port, HDMI $119.99 :thumbup: Or wait a little because AMD just announced that
Sunnyvale, Calif. —1/14/2010
ATI Radeon™ HD 5670 graphics card, the latest addition to the award-winning line-up of the world’s first and only graphics products to fully support Microsoft DirectX® 11 gaming and computing, as well as new innovations such as ATI Eyefinity technology. Priced at less than USD $100,

...and newegg.com has them for just under $100,- see page, and i'd say take the HIS (best cooling, so the quietest). :thumbup:


You Rditto, could easily upgrade to a HD4890 for the dump prices they are offered now: :bigok:
XFX 4890 $199.99 <-- but that's an open (well, not entirely closed) model; this is a closed one -> XFX Radeon HD 4890 XXX Edition Video Card - 1024MB DDR5, PCI Express 2.0 x16, CrossFireX Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, FREE HAWX Game $219.99
Or a HD5770: Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, CrossFireX Ready, Dual DVI, Display Port, HDMI giving almost the same performance in DX9/10, but has also DX11 support and much lower idle/2D powerconsumption! $179.99 Less $10.00 Rebate = $169.99 (See extensive review on Techpowerup)
Or save up for the superb Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, CrossFireX Ready, Dual DVI, Display Port, HDMI $299.99 (See extensive HD 5870 review which includes the HD5850 at Techpowerup)

Nice videocard performance summary @ Techpowerup.

Buying videocards now, i would recommend going DX11, since it is implemented in Vista and Windows 7, the OS's of today and the next years. You both cannot stick to XP forever, it's a dying OS, and support for it is decreasing. Windows 7 is smarter and more stable, and much better memory handling is one of the essential advantages. You'll love it.
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * Dell P4317Q * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby rditto48801 » 22 Jan 2010, 02:00

From what he said, it sounds like the cooling fan on the video card had been making odd noises not long before the video card stopped working, and that he noticed a burnt smell of some sort about the time his graphics stopped working.

He says his computer is working alright at the moment, with an older video card in it until he gets a new one.

And wow... GDDR5?
I seem to have entirely missed GDDR4 coming and going... :confused:

I will have to remember to start saving when I can, so i can get a newer video card before the present one becomes to old. Hopefully, I will be able to get a new one by summer.

I am stubborn, so I will probably be sticking to Windows XP for now, especially due to cost. :whi:

Would there be much trouble with upgrading from XP to Windows 7?
Such as if I will have to backup as much as possible on a separate HDD due to needing a full HDD reformat in order to install Windows 7?
Is there going to be any secondary factors, like if there is a 32 bit or 64 bit version?
How much can the 32 bit version if Windows 7 handle in terms of memory? Is it better than XP in that it won't be stuck at something like 3328MB of RAM out of 2x2GB Dual Channel RAM?
How much RAM does Windows 7 use compared to XP?
Other than its name, I know next to nothing about Windows 7.
Boldly going forward, 'cause I can't find reverse.

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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby Blín D'ñero » 22 Jan 2010, 02:23

There IS no upgrading from XP to W7 (like from Vista > W7 there is), it will be format > new install. Just backup all your documents on the second hdd.
Or:
go dualboot XP / Windows 7.
And in that case: don't hesitate and go 64-bit, most current applications and hardware have already moved that way and in future everything will be 64-bit because it is better and unlimited. And it's backwards compatible: all 32-bit applications still work too. Get the most out of your 64-bit hardware, your PC is fully 64-bit capable... :thumbup:
Max memory limits for 64-bit Windows 7

While the maximum RAM limit for 32-bit Windows 7 editions is 4GB, when it comes to the 64-bit editions, the amount of memory that the OS can address depends on which edition you are running.

Here are the upper RAM limits for the different editions of Windows 7:

Starter: 8GB
Home Basic: 8GB
Home Premium: 16GB
Professional: 192GB
Enterprise: 192GB
Ultimate: 192GB
These limits are similar to those for Vista editions, expect that Vista Enterprise and Vista Ultimate have had their upper limits raised from 128GB to 192GB.

The one to look out for there is the 16GB limit on Home Premium. If you’re building a Core i7 system then it’s quite easy (if you have the cash!) to exceed this limit. As long as you’re aware of the limit and plan your OS accordingly you’ll be OK.

Source
blogs.zdnet

Windows 7 Home Premium: $104.99 (newegg)
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * Dell P4317Q * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby rditto48801 » 22 Jan 2010, 03:16

I just ran across this on Tigerdirect.
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Operating System Software - UPGRADE Version - DVD

Windows 7 Upgrade System Requirements

* To be eligible for this offer, you need to be running a genuine copy of the Windows XP or Windows Vista operating systems.
* 1GHz or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor.
* 1GB RAM (32-bit) or 2GB RAM (64-bit)
* DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver.

Down side, it costs more, $129.99.
Boldly going forward, 'cause I can't find reverse.

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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby Blín D'ñero » 22 Jan 2010, 11:38

Yes that would be the "upgrade version" when you have a previous Windows license, no matter if that is XP or Vista. But practically speaking, only Vista users can install it as an upgrade over their Vista (not recommendable though) which with XP is impossible. I thought your question concerned this, and not the fact that you can buy an "upgrade version".

The newegg one is an OEM, therefore cheaper. OEM = for systembuilders, that includes everyone who just bought components and assembled their own PC, AND does not need support from Microsoft, because you're not gettting any with an OEM installation.
Support meaning you can call (telephone) microsoft for problems you have with Windows (and then also pay 0.75 c a minute or so...) but why would you. The internet, forums like this and a zillion others are full of user-based support and experience sharing, it's basically all self-support... plus the microsoft knowledgebase is open for everybody and it's also got a forum for every Microsoft product... there's nothing left you'd have to call Microsoft for on the phone, really. So why pay more than for an OEM version. :bigok:

That upgrade version you link to is not "OEM" but "Retail upgrade".
Everytime you format and reinstall an "upgrade version", during the process it needs to see (in the dvd-player) your licensed previous product so you have to put your XP dvd in, then out, your upgrade dvd in again to proceed. And from the price you pay, 10 USD is in advance paying for Microsoft phone support you probably don't even need.
But the "Retail full" version is the most expensive, (Home Premium: $183.49 ) you pay about 80 USD in advance for Microsoft support...

Anyway, it requires at least * 1GB RAM (32-bit) or 2GB RAM (64-bit) to function,
... but it supports (sees and uses) upto: 4 GB (32-bit version) - 16GB (64-bit version).
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * Dell P4317Q * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby rditto48801 » 02 Feb 2010, 19:06

Well, it looks like a new video card is on hold. He was eyeballing the HD 5670 until another problem popped up.
You were right about being wary of possible MB troubles.
It seems my friend's PC was having some sort of odd loop problem with booting up Windows, and a PC shop he took it to said the MB itself is going bad. Something about a CMOS being bad or some such thing if I heard him right.

How much should it cost to get a nice MB?
One that is cost effective and reliable, but not cheap.
The computer shop he took the computer to quoted him a price of $99 for a new MB. Is that to cheap to get a nice MB?
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby Blín D'ñero » 03 Feb 2010, 02:22

It's an interesting time to find a good deal somewhere. A board that supports his current CPU and DDR2 RAM. Is it Intel/AMD? Since the new Intel itanium era many socket775 motherboards have gotten cheaper. However they can be very good, it's "old" tech, phasing out. Or rather, however it's phasing out "old" tech they still can be very good. :fact: And then it depends: his PC's housing is full ATX or smaller? Do they include the assembling in that price?
Only if he would assemble himself, it would make sense to search for a matching motherboard and focus on its price. If he doesn't do self-assembling it's going to cost more anyway. :(
If he does assemble and you're asking me which board i could recommend i'd have to know his current components to find a matching one.
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * Dell P4317Q * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby rditto48801 » 07 Feb 2010, 20:41

I will need to ask him when I get the chance.
I think he knows at least some stuff about putting his own computers together, but I am not sure.


Edit:
He does not know the exact kind of case he has. He said it resembles the cases used by Alienware.
He also said the case has 7 slots on the rear, and that the computer shop made mention it was Form Factor ATX.
Here is the MB that is going kaput on him, so you know what he presently has stuff for.
An ECS GeForce 6100SM
Here's a link I found via google.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16813135039

He said he has Kingston DDR2 667 memory (2x 1GB, single memory chips, not dual channel), and a Sound Blaster Audigy sound card.

He said he will be replacing the MB, CPU, and HDD.

He said he might go for Windows 7 when he does get around to getting a new computer built.
He is going to get the parts and have a computer shop put it together for him.

I am guessing if he goes for Windows 7, that he will probably be needing to also get new RAM.
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Re: Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

Postby Blín D'ñero » 08 Feb 2010, 02:08

rditto48801 wrote:He also said the case has 7 slots on the rear, and that the computer shop made mention it was Form Factor ATX.
Here is the MB that is going kaput on him, so you know what he presently has stuff for.
An ECS GeForce 6100SM
Here's a link I found via google.
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16813135039


That is clearly no ATX Form Factor; that's NVIDIA GeForce 6100S Micro ATX . Not quite a gaming rig it was. Good plan upgrading CPU, motherboard, RAM. A new, more serious PC
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * Dell P4317Q * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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