Friend looking for a new video card (again), need 2nd opinon

[rditto48801]

Maybe I missed something, but do you mean that his case can't be ATX because he has a Micro ATX MB in it?

Anyways, I know it is not exactly a good gaming rig, but it is 'cheap'...
That is one 'problem' he has, he tends to cut corners at times.
I learned the hard way with my old GeForce 6200TC that cutting corners is not always a good idea.

That's why I try to get advice here, to try and get him to get something that is going to last him a nice while and not need replacing all the time due to breakdowns or falling short on system requirements.
It also helps me to keep informed on things.

[BlindNero]

ATX is usually referred to as Full ATX. Micro-ATX is the smallest form factor, the size of quite simple motherboards, generally basic stuff for budget HTPC's.

[rditto48801]

I think there is a little miss-communication.

Will a Micro-ATX MB fit in a (Full) ATX case?

Or does my friend having a Micro-ATX MB at present mean the case has to be Micro-ATX also, and cannot be an ATX case?

[BlindNero]

Okay! No, you're right. His case can be full-atx, just housing a micro-atx motherboard inside.

[rditto48801]

You Rditto, could easily upgrade to a HD4890 for the dump prices they are offered now:
XFX 4890 $199.99 <-- but that's an open (well, not entirely closed) model; this is a closed one -> XFX Radeon HD 4890 XXX Edition Video Card - 1024MB DDR5, PCI Express 2.0 x16, CrossFireX Ready, (Dual Link) Dual DVI, HDTV, FREE HAWX Game $219.99
Or a HD5770: Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, CrossFireX Ready, Dual DVI, Display Port, HDMI giving almost the same performance in DX9/10, but has also DX11 support and much lower idle/2D powerconsumption! $179.99 Less $10.00 Rebate = $169.99 (See extensive review on Techpowerup)
Or save up for the superb Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 Video Card - 1GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, CrossFireX Ready, Dual DVI, Display Port, HDMI $299.99 (See extensive HD 5870 review which includes the HD5850 at Techpowerup)

Nice videocard performance summary @ Techpowerup.

Buying videocards now, i would recommend going DX11, since it is implemented in Vista and Windows 7, the OS's of today and the next years. You both cannot stick to XP forever, it's a dying OS, and support for it is decreasing. Windows 7 is smarter and more stable, and much better memory handling is one of the essential advantages. You'll love it.

Due to the issues relating to my Sims 3 graphics troubles, and due to newer games coming out that interest me, I am now starting to seriously consider getting a new video card myself as soon as possible. I am already getting money saved up.

There are 4 things I know that I will be wanting/needing.
1: A dual slot model with extended cooling design (blow through cooler?). Don't need to be cooking or boiling water with my video card due to frame rate excessive games.
2: A bare minimum of 512MB, 1GB likely to be preferred... heck, scratch 512MB, make it 1GB minimum if you would recommend it. Since all of the ones you brought up have 1GB, that is not an issue at the moment.
3: Must have Pixel Shader 3.0, which is needed for at least one of the newer games coming out soon that has caught my eye (Supreme Commander 2)
4: Must work with DX9/Windows XP for the time being, since if I upgrade to Windows 7, I will have no money to get a new video card for a while, and vice versa. So, for now, I choose to upgrade the video card sooner, and OS later.

My price range at present tops out at about $200, but I can go a little higher if needed.

I was looking at the HD 5770 you mentioned, BlindNero, but two sites I was checking for prices with (TigerDirect and Amazon) don't seem to mention what kind of Shader it has.
I also tried Newegg, but several I checked there also did not seem to indicate what kind of Pixel Shader it has.

Although it is at the top of my price range, the 4890 is also a possible choice. Down side, the closed model seems to no longer be available on Tiger Direct, and I can't find any of the closed models on Amazon for any reasonable prices (cheapest I found was $300), or that have gotten some bad reviews.

Also, about PCI-E 1.0/2.0
Checking the MB specs, it says "1 x PCIe x16 (Support PCIe 2.0 / 1.0 Architecture )"
Another spot says it has PCI-E 2.0 Support.
Don't PCI-E 2.0 cards have the ability to draw power directly from the MB if plugged into a PCI-E 2.0 slot? Or am I thinking of something else?

[BlindNero]

HD5770 supports shader model 5 (and backwards 4, 3, 2, 1), as all HD5xxx models do since they are DX11.
PCI-express 2.0 cards are compatible with pci-e motherboards, with in practice no loss of performance. But your motherboard is pci-e 2.0 supporting, so that too is covered!
HD4xxx series are also pci-e 2.0, and support shader model 4 (DX10.1).
If you can afford it, i would suggest the HD5850; it comes close to 5870 but with a much better price/performance value and by the time you buy Windows 7 you have DX11 covered. You play below 1600x1200 resolution so 5870 would be overkill anyway, unless you were planning a 1920 x 1200 monitor.

Second choice Sapphire HD5770 $169.99*
tigerdirect.com

Limited choice there...

And then, there's also the option of HD5830 to consider... a stripped down HD5xxx with a massive 5870 cooler. But the introduction price, still too high, would have to lower before being recommendable. Conclusion AnandTech 5830 review
.

[rditto48801]

It looks like my CRT monitor (17in iirc) has a max resolution of 1280x1024.

I use 1024 by 768 because I am used to it, having used it for a very long time. (A good decade or so).

The HD 5830 is barely within the range I would be willing to go for.

For now, I guess it depends on how much money I will be able to get saved up, and how long it takes to get it saved up.

It is going to take a few months to save up for something like the 4890 at $220, so perhaps the price of the 5830 will have dropped a little by then.

Hmm...
Since it is a related subject, perhaps I should also consider getting a nice flat screen LCD monitor sooner or later while I am at it.
Any suggestions, such if I should get a 'regular' flat screen lcd or a 'wide screen' version?
And what the pros and cons of either would be?
Ones of interest I noticed on Amazon where a regular sized 19in, and a 22in wide screen, under $200 each.

Baring that, a larger crt monitor if money gets tight after I get the video card.

[BlindNero]

Con for a widescreen would be your older games get strecthed unless the monitor supports 1:1 pixel mapping, but i suppose nowadays many do. Other big con is that the affordable popular ones are all TN and they have really bad viewing angle: something the CRT doesn't know of.
and the 3d big con is that the popular resolution 1920x1080 is rediculous (too wide, not enough height) because it's mainly focused on HDTV movies, which means the better gaming resolutions (1920x1200, 1680x1050) are becoming harder to find. But of course you could also take a traditional 4:3 aspect ratio 19" or 17" LCD...
For what you game at, 1024 by 768, a HD5770 is more than enough! 160 for the card, another 110 for the screen, Asus (traditional VGA, no DVI).
Pro is it's really cheap nowadays.

[rditto48801]

I do happen to wear glasses, so one other main reason I like 1024x768 is it keeps the icons/text on my desktop from being to small. I wouldn't mind 1280x960 (the max 4:3 ratio setting my present monitor can apparently handle), or possibly higher if my monitor could handle it, but it makes the text on desktop icons and whatnot a little hard for me to read without about kissing the monitor.

[BlindNero]

1280x960 (the max 4:3 ratio setting my present monitor can apparently handle),

that's widescreen aspect ratio; 4:3 would be 1280x1024.