Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

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Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 08 Mar 2010, 14:25

The only problems i have with this game are the bugs. No tech problems. Performance-wise, game runs flawlessly. See system specs in signature.

"Top 3" because these are the most frequent. The rest in list 4 is just as frustrating though.

Mass Effect 2 (v 1.01) suffers 3 horrible bugs:
  1. Sudden airlift of Shepard (squad follows) with no escape. Under attack this makes Shepard an easy target, dead. Also stuck between crates with no way out. Only solution: reload savegame.
  2. Cover standup: during crossfire, Shepard when ducking for cover often stands up again! so you have to duck twice! The frequency differs per situation, at some places it never happens, sometimes it is 1 out of 10 but may also happen 4 out of 5 times. Under fire, when Shepard's health is almost lost > quickly duck > she stands up :clown: > quickly duck again. Often she dies by standing up and receiving a fatal rocketblast right in her face. :smh:
  3. Custom Female Shepard has no eyelids; only the lashes blink. It's a flaw in the face customization tool. This ruins her (otherwise superbly done) face.
  4. And a lot more Mass Effect 2 bugs that didn't make top 3, and other flaws



The expressions on the faces of all characters are very well done and natural.
Except for the Main Character, whose face we look at the most: Shepard. The female version. When she blinks. No eyelids. Only the eyelashes blink.

As said, this is when blinking, like every normal human does. All human and human-like character's faces in the game (Jacob, Miranda, Jack, Zaeed, Samara, Liara... etc, even the nameless side-characters you meet throughout the game) show normal eye-movement bahavior, including the eyelids. Only with Shepard, generally her eyes looked perfect but the blinking seemed weird. Well-timed screenshots revealed what's actually happening.

And when she closes her eyes they stay open (only the lashes close).
This ruins her facial expression!
None of the other characters have this problem.

I don't know if the male Shepard has the same problem, haven't played as male. Besides, my Shepard is just built from the tool given by the game, so every variant should function properly.

For an explanation read comment by Shigee below in this thread, excerpt:
Shigee wrote:...is a simple geometry-based animation error. What is occurring is the 3d mesh [...] is being animated through the eyeball.



Captured in well-timed screenshots the problem is exposed.
Various stages of her blinking, seen from various angles.
See also 3 second footage in this post

Imported save from ME1... but the character is entirely rebuilt in ME2.

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When embracing Liara, Shepard is supposed to have closed eyes:

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but she is not able to, ever since Lazarus Research Station...:

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She doesn't even need to blink for you to see it; behind the lashes she does not seem to have eyelids:
Image



Floating eyelashes.
This is the only time i saw lids on her eyes.
From this angle (very rare) she suddenly does seem to have lids, but either they or the lashes are misplaced:


Image
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 08 Mar 2010, 20:55

This makes me think: maybe the lashes do exist but have wrong coordinates so that they generally fall behind the eyes (or otherwise made invisible), like the ME1 bug with the torches.

Blín D'ñero wrote:Wrong: fire is going through the background mountains:
Image

Image
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 09 Mar 2010, 01:08

It does seem like that ... i found another shot in a different angle showing a misplaced eyelid:

Image
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 13 Mar 2010, 07:22

and another one.

Image

There certainly is a lid or 2 floating around there...
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Shigee » 16 Mar 2010, 01:27

The issue with the torches in ME1 is an alpha testing problem that occurs in many engines, and could have been fixed but was overlooked as a graphical glitch you could live with, what happens there is that you are rendering multiple alpha maps to the same buffer and letting the engine sort the depth, or not, which causes the engine to not be told which one should render on top of the other. I doubt they bothered fixing this because they did not use alpha maps much at all, most games make sure this is sorted out because they use alot of vegetation, and in those situations this issue is much more apparent. This issue is not necessarily an easy fix.

This eye issue has nothing to do with the aforementioned alpha sampling/z-buffer issue, but is a simple geometry-based animation error. What is occurring is the 3d mesh which makes up the upper eyelid, does exist, is not just a texture, and is being animated through the eyeball. I would expect a fix for this one, since it is just an animation issue, and I would assume the ME2 engine has a rather robust animation controller, it should be quite a simple fix.

I am not explaining any of the technical terms used in this, if you wish to know in more detail, Google XD

Hope i was able to help.
~Shigee~
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 16 Mar 2010, 01:44

Aha, thanks Shigee! Comment from someone with knowledge in the field, much appreciated. :thumbup:
Makes a lot of sense now... and i'm confident it won't be a problem for the developers to fix it. :)
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 16 Mar 2010, 02:09

And this would be the same issue?
And just as 'simple' to fix? :)

Jaw through collar:
Image
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Shigee » 16 Mar 2010, 11:15

Ah, but we have to look at the priorities here, eyelids may be a big issue, as it happens very often, whereas this jaw through collar issue may occur so infrequently as to be unnoticeable for the most part.
Besides that, these do not impede gameplay or break the suspension of disbelief (much), I would say from a developers perspective, fixing the various harmful bugs would be at the top, I played the game, and i would rate the bug that shoves you through the level, to be at the top of such a list.
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Blín D'ñero » 16 Mar 2010, 16:26

This jaw through collar happens exactly once (1) in the whole game, and i totally agree with you about priorities.
The harmful bugs first. End of discussion! :thumbup:

But i would like to know: i have no idea how much work in terms of effort, time, a programmer (or a team) would need to fix things like that. I'm a painter, my work is 2D, oil on canvas, so totally uncomparable to "3D gamesworld" art. It would take me a few minutes, because the surface with the problem on it is right there before my eyes. Whereas in a game it is deep down between the zillions of data. But i assume the designers editor/sandbox applications put that under control.
Assume EA says "guys you have two weeks to fix this list of issues". And one of the programmers says to him/herself "hmm, this jaw through collar isn't on the list, it's not important but i can't stand it so i'll go fix it along the way"... Now will he/she lose much time by doing that? Is it one or two settings changed by checkbox or slider, or a few values changed in lines, or would it involve creating entirely new rules and values, redesigning and testing of release candidates, hence at least 3 weeks fullday work for a team of 3 people?
Gaming PC: * Intel i7 4790K * Noctua NH-D15S * Asus Maximus VII Hero * 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD32GX3M4A2133C9 * 2× Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X in crossfire * Dell U3010 @ 2560 x 1600 / 60Hz * Corsair AX 1200W * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Asus DRW F1ST * Corsair K95 RGB * Corsair M65 PRO RGB * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S530 * Sennheiser HD598 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC: * Intel i7 2700K @ 4.8 Ghz * Noctua NH-D15 * Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z * 32 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro CMY32GX3M4A1866C9 * Sapphire HD7970 crossfire * 3 x Dell U2410 @ Eyefinity 5760 x 1200 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 1000i * 7 x WD Black HDDs * Creative Soundblaster ZxR * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Imperator 2012 * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Edifier S730D * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *

Workhorse PC 2: * Intel i7 920 @ 3.8 Ghz * Zalman CNPS9900A LED * Asus Sabertooth x58 * 24 GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz CL9 DDR3 * Sapphire R9 280X Vapor-X * 2 x Dell U2412M @ Eyefinity 2400 x 1920 / 60Hz * Corsair HX 850W * 7 x WDC WD1002FAEX * Creative Soundblaster Z * Optiarc AD 5240S * Steelseries 7G * Razer Mamba TE * Steelseries 9HD * Coolermaster STC T01 * Logitech Z-2300 * Windows 7 Ultimate x64 *
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Re: Mass Effect 2 most horrible bug 3: broken eyelids on Shepard

Postby Shigee » 16 Mar 2010, 17:21

I cannot say, I have no knowledge of the engine ME2 uses, and this kind of thing is entirely dependent on that. It could take a team several days, or a single person a single hour, it varies from engine to engine because none are built the same or have the same tools to go with them. Though from what I know, such things should be easily fixed through the ME2 engine. the major issues, like the level-popping, are not easily fixed and are unlikely to be properly fixed because its an error in the engine physics and pathing system. I doubt they will be rewriting and rebuilding source code, the best bet would be for them to find problem areas where the bugs are most likely to occur, and rearrange level components, and props, to better avoid causing the issues.
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